Curse

Shyft the Pyro · Aug 09, 2007, 10:07 PM // 22:07

The change to Favor of the Gods is rather abrupt, but I don't believe tying access to title progress will prove to be a good thing. I don't think maxing a title happens as often as necessary to have Favor of the Gods trigger frequently enough, and while I do like the idea of people being able to access Fissure of Woe and the Underworld regardless of where they live, I think the system may grow even more stale with no ability to quickly "one-up" someone else, considering you can't max a title more than once and how long it usually takes to do so.

To this end, I'd propose the following two things to "fix" Favor of the Gods:

1. Tie Favor of the Gods to completing the last storyline mission. If we're not talking PvP in the Mists, I believe this is the most appropriate in-game accomplishment for the gods of Tyria to reward.

2. Give Favor of the Gods only in the campaign where players defeated the last storyline mission. If someone defeats Hell's Precipice, give favor to Tyria and open up Temple of Ages; if someone completes Imperial Sanctum, give favor to Cantha and open up Zin Ku Corridor. This will give players a way to quickly participate in the system even if they don't own all the campaigns, or even push them to buy other campaigns if they wish to never miss out on Fissure of Woe and Underworld access.

What do you think? Do you like my suggestions, or do you have your own?

jjdefan · Aug 10, 2007, 01:02 AM // 01:02

I don't think tying it to completing the endgame mission is the right answer either. It's not difficult to complete any of the endgame missions at any given time. I think that would make it too easy. I'm not sure what a real fix would be, but not endgame mission completion.

MrFuzzles · Aug 10, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

I don't think maxing a title happens as often as necessary to have Favor of the Gods trigger frequently enough,

I would assume that this is something they are able to and have been keeping track of on a global level to get a ballpark idea of how it would work for gaining favor. We'll see though.

I like the idea of everyone being able to visit FoW/UW regardless of region. I know many people from "outside" GW who plays, and we're all spread across different regions. They all have their own network of friends and guilds so it wouldn't be practical to ask all of them to switch shards *just* so we could do FoW/UW together. With this change we will finally be able to.

I've barely HoH'ed myself since I'm only in an extremely casual guild of irl friends (I have like 40 hero points or something), so can't really comment on how this change affects HoH'ers. I would assume that it might feel a bit like taking away the "point" and glory of winning it.

Atlas Ravens · Aug 10, 2007, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFuzzles

I would assume that this is something they are able to and have been keeping track of on a global level to get a ballpark idea of how it would work for gaining favor. We'll see though.

I like the idea of everyone being able to visit FoW/UW regardless of region.

You, Sir, get the Beacon of Reality award.

Shyft the Pyro · Aug 10, 2007, 02:28 AM // 02:28

@ jjdefan: The only "easy" end mission is in Factions, and people don't normally come back to these once they've gotten what they were looking for. The repeatability of these missions is precisely the reason I'm suggesting them as a trigger: instead of moaning about not being able to get favor when they want it, players could do one of these missions to ensure they could enter the Realms of the Gods afterwards. This would breathe second life into otherwise underused content.

@ MrFuzzles: HoH players still get their name in the lights, and I highly doubt they would PvP with such frequency and zeal if they didn't enjoy the process as much as the result. The point, however, is that Favor is still tied to a practically random game mechanic. Unless you're looking to max a title every time you want to access the Realms of the Gods, you'll be relying on other players to max titles, something that's not guaranteed to happen when you want it to.

Also, I am not suggesting the Favor be broken by real-world region, as it had been before, but by game region. Lore-wise, it makes a lot more sense to see Cantha gain the Favor of the Gods than Europe or Japan, and the only way it would limit your ability to game with friends would be if they did not purchase the campaigns you did... but that prevents you from playing with them in the current system as well.

@ Atlas Ravens: You give out Beacons of Reality based on assumptions? Well, then, I guess I should mention I assume ANet is implementing this change precisely because they want to measure player interest in titles. We can't know which assumptions are correct, but we can act on them instead of waiting for them to prove false.

Atlas Ravens · Aug 10, 2007, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

@ Atlas Ravens: You give out Beacons of Reality based on assumptions? Well, then, I guess I should mention I assume ANet is implementing this change precisely because they want to measure player interest in titles. We can't know which assumptions are correct, but we can act on them instead of waiting for them to prove false.

Nope, having a degree in computer science and being a programmer, I guarantee that ANet knows the frequency at which titles are being obtained. It's not even conceivable to anybody with that type of background that they would not. For pete's sake, I will give you that ANet make some questionable decisions, but to imply that they have done this without knowing if there are in fact enough titles being obtained to support it is just wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

We can't know which assumptions are correct, but we can act on them instead of waiting for them to prove false.

Pitchforks and torches anyone?

Shyft the Pyro · Aug 10, 2007, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlas Ravens

Nope, having a degree in computer science and being a programmer, I guarantee that ANet knows the frequency at which titles are being obtained. It's not even conceivable to anybody with that type of background that they would not. For pete's sake, I will give you that ANet make some questionable decisions, but to imply that they have done this without knowing if there are in fact enough titles being obtained to support it is just wrong.

But you do realize that there are a few too many things to account for in the "frequency of obtained titles" equation to rely on it so wholly? Statistical evidence provides a record of the past rather than the ability to guarantee the future. The frequency will hold if and only if people keep maxing titles at the same rate, which in turn will depend on whether ANet's many title marketing schemes (PvE skills, Hall of Monuments, GW2) work. The "incentive" of favor at the end of each title track is neither easy nor fast enough to be repeated by the people who desire favor, and the "added bonus" is neither long enough nor important enough to turn casual players into title freaks. Title freaks, who'd max the titles either way (and might have already done so) will likely care no more about favor than the PvP crowd did.

In short, what we end up with is precisely what we had before: a favor system tied to an unrelated game mechanic. Just as with the original HoH/favor and the Factions land/AB setups, in order to get something they want players have to do something ANet would prefer they did. (PvP extends gameplay, less programming, etc. - I've said it before and will elaborate again if you wish).

Quote:

Pitchforks and torches anyone?

Not what I was going for. Your assumption is that they're right, and so you do nothing; my assumption is that they're wrong, and so I post a suggestion. Both of us act on our assumptions, even though the assumptions are diametrically opposed.

flettir · Aug 10, 2007, 05:46 AM // 05:46

shiro's too easy. favor in cantha within 20 minutes of hard work guaranteed if you're alone. or...well...how many times does that mission have to be completed to get favor for the time being?

Shyft the Pyro · Aug 10, 2007, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by flettir

shiro's too easy. favor in cantha within 20 minutes of hard work guaranteed if you're alone. or...well...how many times does that mission have to be completed to get favor for the time being?

Well, as of right now, 20 titles must be maxed before favor is granted for an hour. Depending on how this change works out - and I'm thinking the downtime will be significant - I'd like to see a more frequent favor system. I really don't see a reason for restricting access by reintroducing the old "5 times" rule or keeping the new "20 titles" rule, but if people insist that the missions are too easy, a compromise at 3 mission completions for each region, to establish favor or to grab it away from a different region, could be reasonable.

Frankly, Cantha is the only region where frequency of favor gain would be an issue. Hell's Precipice takes a while, so you'd basically need to take several hero/hench teams through it at once to coordinate a "favor spike" for a takeover. Abaddon isn't a pushover either, and though there are specific strategies for running that mission a 3-time counter would put a damper on "favor spiking." Imperial Sanctum, by contrast, can be easily completed in two minutes or less, which means Cantha will have the easiest time grabbing favor under the proposed system... but putting a higher barrier of 5 or more completions would leave Tyria and Elona at a deep disadvantage, considering the effort that needs to be invested into the last mission of those campaigns. There's other, built-in balancing factors too: Tyria is easiest to access (anyone can run to ToA) but takes longest to complete the last mission; Factions is fastest but has anti-running features to dampen accessibility. People might not want to do Imperial Sanctum for favor if they'd rather access Realms of the Gods from Chantry of Secrets or Temple of Ages.

Now, even though we're talking about different regions of the in-game world "stealing" favor from each other, these favor transfers should not affect the players, who will be able to take advantage of favor regardless of where in the real world they live in. The only limitation becomes the number of campaigns they own, since they won't be able to zone to Temple of Ages when Tyria grabs favor if they don't have Prophecies on their account.

This can boost sales of already released games, which would be a great thing for ANet to jump on - except they seem to only be looking forward, what with the heavy leaning on titles for attracting players to GWEN and GW2. Even if this change, or a change other than the current one, is warranted, I doubt ANet will step away from its current marketing scheme... but I still gotta try

Hollow Gein · Aug 10, 2007, 07:25 AM // 07:25

This change was a real disappointment. I'd rather have the old system back in play. As it stands i'm glad me and my guildies acquired a reasonable amount of passage scrolls. Grinding for entry is beyond lame

DarkGanni · Aug 10, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

I would say old system with less Wins like 2-3 Wins needed for Favor, that way FoW/Uw has more chance of accessibility in USA and Asia. Would like your thoughts about this.

- Ganni

ilipol · Aug 10, 2007, 08:10 AM // 08:10

How about something like "every time 10 areas in a campaign are vanquished that campaign extends Favor of Gods for 1 minute" ...

It could also work with a given number of kills in a campaign...

MithranArkanere · Aug 10, 2007, 11:54 AM // 11:54

The only good point of the current system is that Favor is worldwide. That should stay (I'm from europe, so I've never had favor problems)

Yeah, for regions that almost never had favor, this is an improvement, but for europe is something like a 'punishment', like a anti-monopoly fine or something.
There are quests that require favor, and you can't wait your entire life to get the favor.
What about if the #20 title is always received while you are not playing? It could happen.
Whit this system, it could even happend people not getting a single title increased for an entire week.

The should turn favor into a 'bonus' to god Avatar options. Instead of being the ONLY way to access them. Like this:

1. Statues are always on, excepting inside missions and mini-mission quests.

2 Without favor:
*Avatars take 2k to get to FoW/UW instead of 1k.
*Avatars in explorables take 150% the gold they take now to give blessings (100g->150g, 200g->300g).
*Scrolls drop normally.

3 With favor:
*Avatars take 500g to get to FoW/UW instead of 1k.
*Avatars in explorables take 50% the gold they take now to give blessings (100g->50g, 200g->100g).
*Scrolls drop double from bosses (but not form FoW/UW creatures).

That way, if there is favor, it is good, and if there is no favor, it's not so bad.

Henchman · Aug 10, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

1. Tie Favor of the Gods to completing the last storyline mission. If we're not talking PvP in the Mists, I believe this is the most appropriate in-game accomplishment for the gods of Tyria to reward.

2. Give Favor of the Gods only in the campaign where players defeated the last storyline mission. If someone defeats Hell's Precipice, give favor to Tyria and open up Temple of Ages; if someone completes Imperial Sanctum, give favor to Cantha and open up Zin Ku Corridor. This will give players a way to quickly participate in the system even if they don't own all the campaigns, or even push them to buy other campaigns if they wish to never miss out on Fissure of Woe and Underworld access.

1. I'm against tying it to the last mission. In Nightfall for example, the last mission can take less than 10 minutes.
An alternative however, could be to tie it to the elite PVE areas in the game- The Tombs, DoA, nad whatever area Factions has.

2. Plain and out no. Someone who owns all three campaigns would always have favor, so there no point to it.

Shyft the Pyro · Aug 10, 2007, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henchman

1. I'm against tying it to the last mission. In Nightfall for example, the last mission can take less than 10 minutes.
An alternative however, could be to tie it to the elite PVE areas in the game- The Tombs, DoA, nad whatever area Factions has.

But these are much harder to complete, and if a buffer of several completions is introduced favor would be largely unattainable. Of the three, only Tombs takes an hour or less with a good team. Deep, Urgoz and DoA are all multi-hour pursuits, which doesn't really make completing them suitable unless favor is granted instantly on completion.

Besides, such a setup wouldn't be fair to Prophecies. The Realms of the Gods were the "original" elite areas, you know

Quote:

2. Plain and out no. Someone who owns all three campaigns would always have favor, so there no point to it.

And that is a bad thing?

Besides, if favor is timed as it is now - if it runs out when no one is completing the missions - there will still be some down time. The only difference would be that the people who wish to enter Realms of the Gods could actually do something about it, instead of relying on people who have no interest in favor to provide them with a side benefit of their activities, as is the case with both the old, PvP-tied system, and the new, title-tied one.

JeniM · Aug 10, 2007, 05:52 PM // 17:52

ToA would be emptied and CoS would be filled as NF's last mission is easy and quick

I (playing in Euro server) had no problem with the old system and i don't have a problem with the new one.
Only strange thing is we still get "xxxxxxxxx's team has won in HoH" and i really think "WHO CARES?". Why when its the maxing of titles thats tied to Favor do we get HoH messages world wide but maxed title messages only in ToA, CoS, GToB ect

Targren · Sep 10, 2007, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeniM

Only strange thing is we still get "xxxxxxxxx's team has won in HoH" and i really think "WHO CARES?". Why when its the maxing of titles thats tied to Favor do we get HoH messages world wide but maxed title messages only in ToA, CoS, GToB ect

Agreed. I was wondering about that too. HoH has nothing to do with Favor, and thus no connection to PvE at all, so why the spam?

Holly Herro · Sep 10, 2007, 11:33 AM // 11:33

100 kills in a region=10 seconds.

*I typed in the first thing I thought of.

bilateralrope · Sep 10, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

I don't think maxing a title happens as often as necessary to have Favor of the Gods trigger frequently enough,

Look at how often we had favor before the GW:EN release. We had is all the time with the time remaining increasing on average. Sure we lost it after the GW:EN release, but it should pick back up once people stop going through its campaign and go back to title maxing.

Then there is a statement from Gaile (though I haven't seen a link to it) saying that if each person earns 1 title a year we would have favor 24/7. This works out to 20 (wins per hour) * 24 * 365.25 (leap years) = 175'320 titles earned per year for constant favor. How many active players does Guild Wars have ?

So tell me why you think we won't have enough titles for favor.

Targren · Sep 10, 2007, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Look at how often we had favor before the GW:EN release. We had is all the time with the time remaining increasing on average. Sure we lost it after the GW:EN release, but it should pick back up once people stop going through its campaign and go back to title maxing.

Then there is a statement from Gaile (though I haven't seen a link to it) saying that if each person earns 1 title a year we would have favor 24/7. This works out to 20 (wins per hour) * 24 * 365.25 (leap years) = 175'320 titles earned per year for constant favor. How many active players does Guild Wars have ?

So tell me why you think we won't have enough titles for favor.

Because only a percentage of those active users are interested in title grinding?